just so this doesn’t overwhelm our front page too much, i think now’s a good time to start consolidating discussions. existing threads will be kept up, but unless a big update comes let’s try to keep what’s happening in this thread instead of across 10.
developments to this point:
- Apollo for Reddit is shutting down
- Reddit is Fun will also shut down
- Reddit CEO (/u/spez) is going to hold a AMA about the API update
- Sync has announced it is shutting down
- ReddPlanet has announced it is shutting down
- Reddit creates an API exemption for noncommercial accessibility apps
- /r/videos is planning to shut down indefinitely, beginning June 11
- A subreddit dedicated to migrating to kbin.social has been closed by Reddit
The Verge is on it as usual, also–here’s their latest coverage (h/t @dirtmayor@beehaw.org):
other media coverage:
what blew my mind, and the minds of many other people on reddit is that they (reddit) have 2,000 employees and yet still can’t piece together a good and accessible experience for their users…
No matter how many developers you get, you’re never going to have a good product if the guy calling the shots won’t allow it. I’m confident that the developers working on Reddit probably know damn well that their product is trash and there’s nothing they can do about it because their job isn’t “make a good site” its “do what your boss tells you to do”
I’ve been a developer for awhile and you would be surprised how many companies can’t get out of their own way to improve their products.
This is so true it hurts.
Looks like the Chinese “investor” is the Communist Party. The actions Reddit is taking are pretty much how they take down all the companies and citizens they target.
Looks like the Chinese “investor” is the Communist Party.
can we get a citation on this–preferably before asserting it as fact, please? i’d like it if, on this site, we didn’t just say things (especially if they sound in line with our priors) but actually substantiate them.
Not fact. It’s my opinion based on the actions I see, and the fact things started to go down hill after the investors gave money. One of the big ones was Chinese.
We’ve seen how things go down when China is involved - loans to poor nations, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the disputed islands with Japan, Tibet, the Urghurs.
We’ve seen the various iterations of the “oops how did that key logger get in there?” discoveries (Lenovo, i’m looking at you), corporate espionage, Huawei telecommunications infrastructure being used to tap communicatons, etc…
Strict control of pretty much everything is the pattern, in which disinformation is easily dispensed and difficult to identify.
I swear tankies and liberals are basically the same. Tankies blame the CIA for every single bad thing that has ever happened while liberals blame the CCP and the Russian government. SOMETIMES BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE JUST GREEDY AND SOMETIMES AMERICANS ARE JUST SHITTY, there doesn’t need to be a secret cabal behind everything
SOMETIMES BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE JUST GREEDY AND SOMETIMES AMERICANS ARE JUST SHITTY, there doesn’t need to be a secret cabal behind everything
while i’ll wait for the source i asked for and gladly correct this if i’m presuming incorrectly, i’d bet the odds are high that “CCP” is just being used as a shorthand/stand-in for a company like TenCent, because that happens a lot in discussions about China and it’s really goofy.
In the interest of fairness, isn’t the difference between TenCent and the Chinese government basically just paperwork? I’ve always heard (anecdotally) that they work extremely close with the CCP.
In the interest of fairness, isn’t the difference between TenCent and the Chinese government basically just paperwork? I’ve always heard (anecdotally) that they work extremely close with the CCP.
i don’t know if i’d go that far? with Tencent specifically it is inarguable they have worked with the Chinese government on some things and that’s not nothing. but Tencent is still an independent company, and governments and corporations/their shareholders frequently don’t have the same interests at heart, so it’s hard to say where to draw the line here.
i think my position would be: i don’t think it’s useful to assert everything they do is intended to advance what China wants, especially in the absence of anything indicating that. i also don’t know how useful it is to assume they’re just a front for China–certainly i don’t think that the people most vocal about this consistently apply that concern to other countries like Saudi Arabia who use companies to advance their state interests all the time.
conversely, i think it’s ridiculous to confidently assert Tencent have never, or don’t ever, get influenced by interests China has, or that Chinese state officials aren’t capable at least theoretically of using the company to advance state interests. that stuff happens here, where ostensibly our system exists to prevent that kind of collaboration (this is basically what the “military-industrial complex” is, for example).
There’s no need to hypothesize about a shadowy government conspiracy when the situation is adequately explained by simple desperation for money. Spez outright said that Reddit is losing money and has always been losing money, and that he needs to make it stop losing money, presumably because Reddit’s investors are tired of giving him money and want to see some return on their investment.
I just don’t get how a site based on freely produced content thst employs volunteer mods can actually monetise.
That part just gets me. The site has nothing without the users and the users have nothing without the mods.
The thing is, they have operating costs. I’m sure it’s a boatload of money as well, given the size and scope of Reddit. Almost all startups run at a loss. And then continue to do so long past when they’re a “startup”. The money they “make” is from rounds of investors who believe they will find a way to make money in the future. Eventually investors get restless and demand that they find a way to monetize so they can recoup. Without those investors money, the site will come crashing as soon as they miss some critical payments for stuff that keep the site up. I’m absolutely sure that’s what we’re seeing. I think either way, its time has come.
Pinch the users to try to keep it alive for a little bit more. Don’t pinch the users and it dies in a grinding halt when they miss some key payments.
So realistically, what would a sustainable business model be for something like Reddit?
Something like lemmy or a fediverse platform is going to rely on donations and community support. In the case of mastodon, for example, it’s been shown to work well enough for sustainable operations. For those willing to work on something worthwhile for lower salary, it is potentially a great gig. In a commercial context though, it’s basically a subscription based business model.
If we’re to recover from this ad driven data tracking economy, subscriptions seem like a healthy thing for businesses to adopt.
Reddit may have already signed their deals with the devil. But generally, the point of the fediverse is to escape this corporate manipulation of our basic communications in the internet, and it’s still interesting to ask what profitable but sustainable operations can look like.
I think that federation will help Lemmy a ton–there will be a lot of small, cheap servers rather than a single extremely expensive one!
Possibly. I’m not sure how true it is that the fediverse necessarily leads to more efficient computing needs per user. I’d bet it’s the opposite.
But, as you perhaps allude to, there are other factors. For those who only want niche smaller communities, they can enjoy a more stripped down experience without needing speedy and beefy servers. Similarly, the platforms here are probably slimmer and not bloated with features that are trying to engage and monetise.
The major factor, IMO, is ownership. Admins literally own their servers. And should have a much closer and codependent relationship with the users in their servers, except in the case of large instances which become different beasts. Additionally, users have much more choice and mobility on the fediverse. All of which means admins/moderators and users have more at stake in their relationship. More ownership over their platform/instance. And therefore actually have a reason to donate and contribute and help out.
Man that whole situation really sucks. Reddit was by far my most visited site before they decided to light the house on fire. On mobile I always used Boost because the official app is terrible and (at least the last time I looked at it) would drain my battery like it was nothing even when the app was closed. RIP. At least we’ve got Lemmy. I just wish these 3rd party apps would take their users to the fediverse instead of shutting down entirely. As a developer it really sucks when you have to shut down a project you’ve put so much work into.
