- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit…::People are dissatisfied with the technology in their cars, according to a new survey from JD Power. They especially don’t like the native infotainment systems.
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Some proposed design principles:
- It’s a car.
- It’s not a goddamn TV.
- It’s not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
- It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
- Because it’s a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
- They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
- Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
- If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
- There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
- If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.
I would pay more to get a car with more buttons than you can comprehend and a small little infotainment system that allows you to play music than a super futuristic car with a iPad in the center and nothing else in the center console area.
physical buttons for the important stuff; stuff like setting interior RBG lighting color and intensity? that can go on soft buttons.
If a feature can go on soft buttons, it can stay at the fucking factory.
EQ for the sound system?
My 2004 Honda accord had a good EQ, and it was all controlled with 2 buttons and the radio tuning dial to adjust the levels.
There is no need for a touchscreen in a vehicle. A small screen for displaying information is one thing, but I should not be compelled to play with what amounts to an iPad when I’m driving a car.
Adjusting mirrors and seats can go on the touch screen as you do that before the drive and I don’t think those can stay at the factory.
I think it’s hilarious the people waxing poetic about how dangerous it is to use touch screens while driving are downvoting you because they’re adjusting mirrors while driving.
Adjusting mirrors and seats can go on the touch screen as you do that before the drive and I don’t think those can stay at the factory.
Sometimes I have to readjust the mirrors during a trip depending on how I sit.
No thanks, mirrors and seats are too important for the touch screen and sometimes need to be adjusted while driving, as you adjust your sitting position.
And really, I don’t want to spend an extra 10 seconds (if you know the car) or 2 minutes (if it’s someone else’s) to get the seat and mirrors adjusted beofre a drive. I want to get in the car, adjust things quickly, and go.
How are you people moving in your seat this much? I never had to adjust anything but the rear view mirror and that is manual anyway.
My posture is completely different in the city, where I am constantly leaning forward and looking over shoulders to clear blind spots, and my foot is regularly on brake and accelerator. Contrast on the highway, where my head and body are mostly still, and my feet are flat on the floor while using cruise control. Since I’m not moving around as much, I regularly move the seat slightly to reduce pressure points.
Similar with the mirrors: For city driving, I want my mirrors a little lower and narrower to see parking spots while backing. For freeway, a little higher and wider gives better visibility of the blind spots without needing to move around as much. For towing, I want them even lower when backing, and even higher and wider on the freeway to clear blind spots.
Yeah, I might go more than a month without touching either the seats or the mirrors at all. But, I might also be adjusting both a dozen times in a single trip.
We share it with other people. I, personally, would just ban short people, but they do exist and they love to move the seat away from my sweet spot.
If I had to use the touchscreen to fix it every time, I’d just leave it in a ditch and set it on fire.
I’ve adjusted mine twice in the last month alone because I needed to fold down the rear seats. But also sometimes you borrow your car to someone who doesn’t have a memory setting. Or your car doesn’t have memory seats and has multiple users.
If I have to use a touchscreen to adjust my seat once a month, that’s 11 times a year too much for me. Buttons? Fine. Levers and wheels like in old cars? Also fine.
No. 9 but for media volume, touch controls are garbage and gestures are even more garbage.
Looking at you, VAG.
A special place in hell is reserved for whoever the hell keeps putting capacitive buttons on cars, ESPECIALLY when they put them on the steering wheel!
No. 9 but for media volume
Thankfully, all cars I’ve driven that had a touch screen also had some media buttons on the steering wheel. I’d prefer to have good old physical buttons in the center console, but at least you didn’t have to use the touch screen.
Buttons on the wheel are better than a touchscreen, but they suffer from being all backwards sometimes, as you use the wheel for it’s intended purpose. The old Peugeots had this thing behind the wheel, you can controll the radio with, using just 2 fingers, without looking. It’s the peak user experience. Nothing will ever beat it. I feel a suden urge to buy a beer for whoever came up with it.
French cars regularly had sometimes strange looking but often quite useful quirks.
I use rental cars quite often. There’s so much garbage in newer cars. Why is there something trying to control my steering wheel, seriously who thought that was a good idea. Also nothing is tactile responsive anymore. It’s like being sold a bloat ware filled phone where you can only use garbage native apps. They made it so much more dangerous.
I guess I like the idea of having tech in my vehicle, but it doesn’t work right. I’ve found so many flaws in the software that can’t be remedied. It’s not designed with user control/customization as the main priority. Furthermore, it’s tied to main functionality of the vehicle which is restrictive in what it allows you to do upgrade wise.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
What would be ideal in my world is open, user focused technology, upgradeable and repairable, and not this proprietary bullshit that we currently have. This is not intelligent design.
Also, while I’m thinking about it, it’s bullshit that we are forced into these operating systems. Uconnect is garbage. Just give me stock android, with the ability to do what I want to with the hardware in the way that I see fit. The responsibility, freedom, and trust of the consumer has been predetermined. I don’t like that.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
Exactly! I can have the system I want but having it somehow means no heated seats in the winter.
Yeah my 2013 Honda has Hondalink, whatever the heck that is and an outdated GPS system which I refuse to pay to upgrade. I typically buy a five or six year old honda which I don’t look forward to next go round, bc I’m sure the tech will be woefully outdated.
The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.
I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it’s only features and I’m fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.
I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
…useless tech
Oh, it is “useful”; to the real ‘owners’ of “your” car…
Yup. I’m in Automotive, I work for a company that makes software for basically any car brand you can think of. I just recently left an internally developed project that aimed to create a personal assistant in the car. It was terribly ran and will go nowhere, but other departments in other companies will probably have more success, especially since the rise of chatgpt.
To add to your point though - the main idea on how to sell this assistant to car makers was the features, but the driving force behind developing the project was customer data. Collect a huge amount of info from customers, info that is shared with the car brand, but also accessible to us. To give some credit, discussions were never about using it for evil purposes - imagine a secretary knowing their boss’ schedule, our software would make suggestions like “you can’t make your 1 PM luch appointment with the client, would you like to reschedule it” and “I see you’re headed to Chicago and will arrive in 2 hours, should I make a reservation at that restaurant you like?” or some shit like that. But we all know that it’s not the engineers who decide what the company does with the data once access to that data exists. And knowing where a user eats, having access to their calendar, having access to their phone… This shit can get out of hand so easily when a budget-oriented executive type decides it’s time for this project to be even more profitable by selling the data to advertisers.
Last I heard before I left, the plan was to “get consent” to process this data through a disclaimer when booting the car’s infotainment system, saying that attached devices share data with our servers etc. Read the manuals, ToS and pop-ups and don’t connect your devices to systems that do this. You’re already the client when buying a car worth thousands of dollars. Don’t also be the product.
such bullshit. how can engineers not let this happen?
Unfortunately I think engineers, as employees of a company, don’t have a lot of power. You aren’t typically the one making feature decisions. You can always try to talk product people out of bad ideas, but at some point if you refuse to do what you’ve been told to, you lose your job. Some engineers are in a financial position to take that high road, but a lot aren’t. And then even if you do quit, there will always be someone else willing to do what you aren’t.
I think as long as there is money in doing unethical (but legal) things, those things will continue to happen
so this is why i think that reasonable engineers (and most actual engineers are reasonable, hence being an “engineer”) should get together and make good stuff. stuff that is not corrupted by perverse incentives. an engineer is capable of understanding the flaws of an economy and how that can be detrimental to the functionality of some tool or system.
unfortunately as long as they’re still subject to the whims of global capitalism, they will never be free from perverse incentives
subject to the whims of global capitalism
so how can we make that not be the case? this is what engineers and innovators are thinking about. we are thinking about what the next system will be and planning how to get there.
systemic change is required, that’s for sure. as to the how of that? fucked if i know tbh
My buying habits mostly consist of living in the late 2000s and what little open source tech there is a available such as framework and pine64. I’m allergic to manufactured ewaste. If i can’t maintain it, i don’t want it.
I love the idea of a computerized car and fully integrated infotainment system. In the same way I would love a fully automated house. The automation and debugging benefits would be incredible. But only if I’m in control at an open source hardware / software level. Otherwise it’s just manufactured ewaste to me.
Same reason I’m still driving an older truck. While I’ve been wanting to upgrade to a new truck, I don’t want to deal with the computer controlling every aspect of the vehicle (breaks, accelerator, lights, etc.) As it is now, if I want to turn my headlights on, a relay controls it. Same with the turn signal, radio, A/C, and the list goes on
I don’t get how my headlights can be set to off and for some reason they are still on. And I don’t need my headlights to stay on for 30 seconds after I leave my car, I want to know that my lights are off and I won’t wake up to a dead battery. (Luckily I just figured out how to disable this)
And automatic lift gates that don’t open unless 10 unknown conditions are met is infuriating. It’s not a useful feature unless your disabled.
I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though… When they work anyways.
I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though… When they work anyways.
My Dad has an '08 Toyota Prius that was gifted to him recently. He loves being able to just unlock the door by grabbing the handle. I tried it out for about a week when he was still getting the tags for it and also enjoyed it.
My '10 Ford Ranger is a fleet truck, so simplified its an XL with zero options. The only “upgrade” might’ve been the seats, vinyl instead of cloth. No electronic locks, no alarm, no electronic windows.
The increasing tech-ification of (all) cars played a role in reducing how much I want a car. Now I’m yearning for the simplicity and visceral feel of a motorcycle, and I will give in to these temptations soon.
I have been saying this for years. The last thing your car should do is take your eyes off the road. This is a 1-3 ton box of metal hurdling at 60+ miles down the highway next to a bunch of other metal boxes that can all kill each other.
And car manufacturers seem to be in love with the idea of you forgetting you’re even driving. Add on all the bs lane assisting, warning bells, alerts, automatic correction, and the driver is convinced that the car will protect them.
These are all systems built on software. Last time I checked, that shit has never been reliable. If the software fails, the manufacturer can just hide behind “They weren’t paying attention!”
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT. I don’t know what I’m going to do when all the cars from before touchscreens and digital gauges are no longer running or affordable because I hate the idea of having to look at a screen to change volume or turn on the AC.
Modern cars can suck a fuck.
I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Fucking touch screens for HVAC and audio controls are a menace though. How do regulatory agencies allow this?
Then there’s the fucking warning message not to look at your screen that starts every time I turn it on. 90% of the time I am not looking at the screen, so I don’t realize I have to click through their warning message until I’m already driving. All they achieved is distracting me and making me look away from the road.
I was in a wreck three weeks ago that may have been avoided if I had not needed to look back and check my blindspot. I made damn sure that my new car had blindspot monitoring. 360° cameras is a bit much but just that little bit of tech can make a big difference.
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT
Remember when a self-driving car killed someone walking their bike in Arizona, while the car’s “handler” was watching a movie on their tablet?
Yeah, the employee should have been paying attention, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself. That’s why commercial transport drivers have mandated breaks and why two pilots are in charge of an airplane at a time.
To be clear, I am in favour of self-driving cars and don’t think they need to be perfect, just better than the average human, but the companies training them need to have standards that are both realistic and safe.
but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself.
It wasn’t an 8 hour shift and watching the car was the actual job, come on! The driver was the tester. They were testing a system which wasn’t yet ready to go untested. The accident is entirely the fault of the driver in that case.
And it’s not like their reflexes were slower because of boredom. No. They were not paying any attention at all. They were watching a video. That is gross negligence and not the fault of the car or of the manufacturer.
They were testing. While it almost certainly wasn’t explicit, they were also testing the worst self-driving car operators. And human nature. Yes, it was their job and they should have been paying close attention every second. But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market? I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market?
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market. Events like these which are human error have created bad press and have set the concept back by years. And these are not years of research, no. These are years in which the projects have been put on the back burner and we’re getting small increments like lane assist which are bad (as in poor quality) most of the time and give users the false feeling that they have a self driving car.
I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
I don’t think that’s the correct way to look at it. Accidents will happen. It is impossible to prevent all of them. But the total number of fatalities would go down dramatically if self driving cars would be more present on the roads and that is a huge win.
42,795 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in US alone in 2022. I think that even with the current technology, this number would still be reduced by half and that is a huge win.
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market.
No, the purpose of testing is to make sure profitable products make it to market. Even the most good-intentioned company (do they exist?) has their priorities set by shareholders.
For example, airlines have a set price they will pay the families of people killed by them. Is it moral? Is it ethical? No. It is financial. What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
Flying is the safest, most regulated, way of travel. There are virtually no accidents because of these regulations. Why would there be a need for an overhaul?
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I don’t have a problem with Auto Technology, but I have a problem with a small minor feature that has nothing to do with moving a car having an ability to disable the car completely.
My wife’s (2023) Rav4 shows texts on the screen when she receives them while driving. I’m just amazed at that.
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For the record, when you connect your phone to the Rav4’s bluetooth, you can set it to audio/phone only.
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It’s through your phone. At least on Android, when you connect to a new bluetooth device your phone will specifically ask you what privileges to allow. I limit mine specifically to audio and phone calls.
The mindless march for ever-more pointless tech in cars has pushed me into getting into classic cars more and more. Hopping into a old car is such a transformative experience. My smartphone connected through Blutooth into the stereo system is the most advanced thing in the car. The windows are huge and visibility is amazing. The ride is smooth and very forgiving. I can actually feel what the road is like because there aren’t 10 layers of computers and electronics between the steering wheel and the tires.
Nowadays, all these companies are doing is trying to use technology to solve a problem created by technology to begin with. I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines. I don’t need a sensor to remind me to look at the road, if the driving experience wasn’t so goddamn boring and devoid of fun and excitement to begin with.
I simply don’t need more shit in my cars.
I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines.
While I agree with your earlier point on more technology not always being good, I disagree on the point of sensors and cameras. A backup-camera and sensor can tell me about approaching cars that I’m not aware of/cannot see physically. Additionally, I’ll take extra reminders of cars when switching lanes at highway speeds.
Yeah exactly, tech should only be in the form of safety measures like proximity alerts, lane stabilizing if you drift, cameras, etc. It’s when they complicate basic controls like HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors, etc that pisses me off. That’s not even starting to talk about other paywalls like a subscription for heated seats or whatever; also didn’t I just read that Mercedes requires a yearly subscription if you want to fully accelerate your vehicle?
Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there’s one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it’s cutting costs.
Touch screens break and wear too, and it’s more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.
Unless it happens during warranty, that costs money to the user not the manufacturer.
