• PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      237·
      4 days ago

      1915 Lemmy lib: “God the German propaganda on .ml is intense”

      The propaganda: Peace pls yes-honey-left

      Any info I encounter contrary to the interests of my preferred empire must be the work of the dastardly Foreigner. If the other side wanted peace they should simply unconditionally surrender imaginator (skull can barely contain brain of this size)

      And if they won’t, we Ukrainians must be willing to give up their lives in a total war until victory (which is going well and good and can be expected to end in that outcome)

      Russia’s terms have been quite clear since the beginning of the war: a neutral, non-West-aligned Ukraine and the official ceding of Crimea and the breakaway republics. Even regardless of how you feel about those issues, how does it benefit you or the average Ukrainian to keep fighting over this? It is such a pointless, devastating loss of life over shit that obviously represents larger geopolitical issues for the West and Russia while Ukraine is turned into a literal wasteland (omg and the Ukrainian side has been financed by massive Western loans doomer, even if Ukraine “wins” they are gonna be fucked when the creditors come for their repayments after the war which is intentional ofc, will probably result in even more IMF austerity plans and poverty)

      Idk, maybe the Ukrainian side could get better terms (they def could have earlier) but they have just refused to actually negotiate (beyond telling the world how “open” they to are it lol) and have taken your total victory position. Ofc there is so much more to say but yeh

    • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
      3138·
      4 days ago

      Citing gallup sources is Russian propaganda? Lmao are US schools just propaganda conditioning centers or what

      • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.techEnglish
        419·
        4 days ago

        Hey Russia is more than welcome to go back home any day and they there will be peace.

        Like blaming a strike on the workers. “Stupid workers picketing for better wages!”. Distraction tactic. Management can pay a fair wage and it will be over tonight.

        Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow

        • SweetLava [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          142·
          3 days ago

          Russia can go wherever they want and the problem won’t be resolved. It’s not about what countries are involved in Ukraine, it’s about why countries feel the need to go there in the first place. Ukraine, like Haiti, Syria, and Sudan - to name a few more - is a site of inter-capitalist rivalry

          You can get peace - sure - but the Ukrainian economy will be subjugated to whoever the ‘victor’ is. You can argue that economic integration reduces conflict and wars, but what will remain is a sort of neo-colonial relationship; or a dependency of sorts. That’s what I have an issue with.

          But that is the only realistic outcome - that exact economic dependency on one power or another (whether that be the US, the EU, or even Russia, or even a mixture, say, for instance, the EU+US or EU+Russia)

          There are no liberationary movements in Ukraine to my knowledge, just a reactionary military regime where political rights have been greatly reduced, even by liberal standards for governance. It is exceptionally rare that a country caught between two capitalist rivals gets the ability to form their own sovereign and independent liberation

        • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          13·
          3 days ago

          Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow

          That’s about as likely to happen as Israel fucking off from Palestine. So where does that leave us?

          • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.techEnglish
            24·
            3 days ago

            No idea, I’ll leave that to others, but I’ll say that this meme is about as laughable as Israel saying Palestine is causing all the violence. I’ll concede that Palestine started this specific thing, but no where nearly the magnitude that Israel retaliated with. (And even that’s debatable). I’m just sick of these places trying to swap the narrative. No, if you want peace, you can achieve that today! Just… Stop the aggression and done! It’s over!

        • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
          1932·
          4 days ago

          No it wouldn’t, delusional as usual from libs. Ukraine was bombing Donbas from 2015, killing upwards of 14k people.

          This was after the Minsk II accords where they negotiated, which is very reminiscent of the Israeli tactics in Lebanon of announcing a ceasefire and insisting only your opponent abide by it. It’s reminiscent because that’s the standard US client tactic, which they implement with complicity from the media knowing libs treat contradictory evidence as propaganda.

            • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
              1830·
              4 days ago

              Did your script get jammed? They were bombing Donbas in violation of the peace deal for years after Russians had already exited the country.

              If the US insists on its clients violating brokered agreements, they shouldn’t be surprised when others don’t trust their word.

              • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.techEnglish
                186·
                4 days ago

                Got it. So for that instance, a great way to have peace would for be for them not to do that.

                A great way to have peace right now would be for Russia to leave. Like a great way for there to have peace would be for everyone to just… Have peace. Easy peasy.

                • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
                  1721·
                  4 days ago

                  Christ, I can get more intelligent conversation from a 7 year old anywhere in the world than a western adult I stg. It’s like talking to Matt Miller.

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          3·
          3 days ago

          I know correct communist opinions are like the Ark of the Covenant to you losers, but I promise you that eventually you can learn to safely hold dangerous opinions like “Nazis are bad”, if you try

          Of course it was just one look, one quick look is all you libs can stomach

        • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
          1720·
          4 days ago

          Libs doing cartwheels to not engage with the evidence lmao. Are Ukrainians not wanting peace deals? If so, they should get them then. Fuck if a gringo thinks they oughta die because they think Ukrainians should keep fighting.

            • Flaps [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              161·
              4 days ago

              From the article

              In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.

              Woops, guess your very small minority actually is the majority

            • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
              1711·
              4 days ago

              You’re still doing the propaganda work of the gringos.

              The point is, Ukrainians want it, Ukrainians should get it. You think the war should continue? That’s fine, get your country to wage it so you can go and fight it.

            • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
              32·
              4 days ago

              I don’t give a fuck about libs or any of the political parties in the States.

              Libs == liberals == https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

              Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

              Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country’s political system.

              In other words, liberals are capitalism stans.

        • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
          77·
          3 days ago

          I’m not assuming anyone is Russian but nice try. I assume most of the negative ones are either American or Western European, because that’s almost the only regions where Russia is viewed very unfavorably by a clear majority, and this site skews anglo as shit, that is the UK, the US, and Australia.

          I’m not for more war, but y’all weirdos hear “we should listen to ukrainians and initiate peace talks” and interpret “we should unconditionally surrender the entirety of Ukraine and then most of eastern europe while we’re at it”, maybe because the only peace you’d accept is the unconditional surrender of Russia and its balkanization. Hate to break it to you, it’s not happening. Russia’s economy is outperforming most western ones, is growing faster than all of the major economies and has just surpassed Japan as the 4th in the world by GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity. But I imagine the World Bank is somehow Putin in disguise as well.

          It’s better to engage with reality than sacrifice Ukranians for your delusions.

  • lugal@sopuli.xyz
    162·
    4 days ago

    So a minority of 27% is desperate enough to offer territorial concessions but I doubt even they are willing to give as much as Putin demands

  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
    146·
    4 days ago

    Western stooge of Russia demands Ukraine surrender the lands taken by invasion.

  • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
    2227·
    4 days ago

    Bruh are we at the point when saying “I agree with Ukrainian civilians in wishing the bloodshed would stop via diplomacy” gets gringos frothing at the mouth? What the fuck is wrong with y’all

    • Ummdustry@sh.itjust.works
      135·
      3 days ago

      it’s that zelensky is being posed in the meme as the main obstacle to peace, rather than the invading russian army.

    • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
      106·
      4 days ago

      I’m starting to think those people are just sadists wishing to see as many Ukrainians and Russians dead as possible…

      They don’t even refute anything, if you say anything remotely critical of Ukraine/Zelensky, you are just declared Russian bot/propagandist and your opinion doesn’t matter. Wow.

      • Grapho@lemmy.mlOP
        912·
        4 days ago

        Fr. It’s taken as a given that they don’t give a fuck about the opinion of Ukrainians. Shit, if you’re so against Putin, why not have your country go to war so you can put on the boots? Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

        • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
          72·
          4 days ago

          … Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

          liberals are armchair generals with enough time to respond quickly to the bits of reality they don’t like.

          leftists have other shit to do to keep a roof over their heads so their response is always slower. i joined this instance because the community here delivers; albeit a day after liberals stop paying attention and moved onto the next thing.

        • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
          62·
          4 days ago

          Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

          Why not?
          I mean the only answer here is “because empathy”, but Ukrainians are not part of their " tribe", so no empathy for us… Murder as many of us as they can, and then write in the history books that it was Russia so that they can continue claiming they are the good ones :(